A Post Office fraud investigator at present denied he and different investigators “behaved like mafia gangsters” – as he confronted questions on the inquiry into the Horizon IT system.
Stephen Bradshaw, a Post Office worker for greater than 45 years, was concerned within the legal investigation of 9 sub-postmasters.
During greater than seven hours of questioning on the inquiry in London, a bullish Mr Bradshaw…
• Denied he and different investigators “behaved like mafia gangsters”;
• Refuted claims he was a bully and referred to as a sub-postmistress a “b****h” on the cellphone;
• Said he was “not technically minded” when requested why he didn’t query Horizon system;
• Told the inquiry he was “no expert” on the system, however had working information;
• Said assertion he signed saying Post Office had “absolute confidence” in Horizon was not written by him.
Throughout his witness assertion, submitted earlier to the inquiry, Mr Bradshaw mentioned his investigations had been performed in a “professional” method.
He additionally mentioned within the assertion: “I refute the allegation that I am a liar.”
‘Not technically minded’
Mr Bradshaw, a witness within the inquiry into the Post Office Horizon scandal, started giving proof on Thursday morning.
His proof was given firstly of section 4 of the inquiry, which has been listening to witnesses since February 2022 and has already heard from lots of the victims.
Mr Bradshaw was concerned within the legal investigation of 9 sub-postmasters, together with Lisa Brennan, a former counter clerk at a publish workplace in Huyton, close to Liverpool, who was falsely accused of stealing £3,000 in 2003. She was one of many first witnesses to the inquiry.
Mr Bradshaw was questioned by counsel to the inquiry, Julian Blake, about why he didn’t query the reliability of the Horizon system.
He acknowledged he was conscious of newspaper reviews of technical bugs however mentioned: “I’m not technically minded with that. I would expect that to come from the people above.
“If there was a difficulty, I’d anticipate Fujitsu [the maker of Horizon] to tell the Post Office and the Post Office to tell us what the problems are.”
Asked how early on he was aware of Horizon being an issue, he said 2010, but “some might have talked about it earlier”.
‘Investigations done correctly’
Mr Blake also asked Mr Bradshaw if, over the past 20 years, he “might have been concerned in what has been described as one of many largest miscarriages of justice in British historical past?”.
Mr Bradshaw said he had “no purpose to suspect on the time” that there was anything wrong with the Horizon system, because his team had “not been concerned”.
“The investigations have been finished appropriately,” he said.
“The investigations have been finished on the time, no issues have been indicated by anyone that there have been points with the Horizon system.”
‘You have told me a pack of lies’
Mr Bradshaw had previously been accused by Merseyside sub-postmistress Rita Threlfall of asking her for the colour of her eyes and what jewellery she wore, before saying: “Good, so we have an outline of you for once they come”, during her interview under caution in August 2010.
Another sub-postmistress, Jacqueline McDonald, claimed she was “bullied” by Mr Bradshaw throughout an investigation right into a shortfall of greater than £94,000.
In her interview with Mr Bradshaw, which was learn to the inquiry, Ms McDonald was accused by the investigator of telling him a “pack of lies”.
The change between Ms McDonald and Mr Bradshaw, learn by Mr Blake, included the investigator saying: “Would you like to tell me what happened to the money?”
Ms McDonald replies: “I don’t know where the money is I’ve told you.”
Mr Bradshaw continues: “You have told me a pack of lies.”
Ms McDonald says: “No I haven’t told you a pack of lies because I haven’t stolen a penny.”
Mr Blake mentioned the witness’s phrases sounded “somewhat like language you might see in a 1970s television detective show”.
Read extra from Sky News:
Investigators ‘supplied bonuses’ to prosecute sub-postmasters
Mass exoneration of sub-postmasters ‘proper factor to do’, says minister
Responding to Ms McDonald’s allegations of his aggressive behaviour in his witness assertion, Mr Bradshaw mentioned: “I also refute the claim that Jacqueline McDonald was bullied.
“From the second we arrived, the auditor was already on website, conversations have been initially (held) with Mr McDonald, the explanation for our attendance was defined, Mr and Mrs McDonald have been stored up to date because the day progressed.”
At the inquiry, Mr Bradshaw added: “Ms Jacqueline McDonald can also be incorrect in stating Post Office investigators behaved like mafia gangsters seeking to acquire their bounty with the threats and lies.”
Post Office bonuses
Mr Bradshaw was asked about whether staff were paid bonuses for successful prosecutions.
He told the inquiry that “bonuses have at all times been paid by the Royal Mail Group and Post Office”.
Asked if success in a legal case would influence the quantity paid, Mr Bradshaw replied: “No, not at all.”
“I’m paid whether one case is done or a thousand cases,” he mentioned.
“We don’t get any extra bonus because of this. It’s how well you do your job.”
Mr Blake then requested: “If you’re considered to have protected the business and prevented the wider impact on the business, do you think that that might lead to a bonus?”
Mr Bradshaw replied: “It may do, and it may not do.”
‘Absolute confidence in Horizon’
Mr Bradshaw was requested a few letter, signed by him in November 2012, during which he declared the Post Office’s “absolute confidence” within the “robustness and integrity” of the Horizon system
He advised the inquiry that the assertion was written by attorneys from the legislation agency Cartwright King.
Click to subscribe to the Sky News Daily wherever you get your podcasts
Asked if it was acceptable for him to declare “confidence” within the IT system within the 2012 assertion, he mentioned: “I was given that statement by Cartwright King and told to put that statement through.
“In hindsight… there most likely ought to have been one other line stating, ‘These should not my phrases’.”
Mr Bradshaw told the inquiry he was not “technically minded” and was not equipped to know whether there were bugs or errors in the Horizon system.
The statutory inquiry, which began in 2021 and is chaired by retired judge Sir Wyn Williams, has previously looked at the human impact of the scandal, the Horizon system roll-out and the operation of the system, and is now probing the action taken against sub-postmasters.
The probe was established to ensure there is a “public abstract of the failings which occurred with the Horizon IT system on the Post Office” and subsequently led to the wrongful convictions of sub-postmasters.
Source: information.sky.com”